(However, a few discreetly sited toilets might not have been a bad idea; while I have no objection to digging a hole, it can’t be environmentally sound if a lot of people do it)

Waiting for commentd from Matthew Teller.

Link here:
http://www.tnooz.com/2011/12/23/news/travel-bloggers-time-to-stop-navel-gazing-and-get-on-with-the-job-please/#comment-1402591

But it’s yet another terminological subdivision… Sigh ;-)

is that another clique for travel bloggers to join and behave corruptly? If so I’m in.

If you’d never thought of it in those terms before then presumably you’re also blessed in never having had to read or hear what he expounds ad nauseam at tbex/tbs events and anywhere else he/panete/oliver/melvin are unfortunately given the forum real or virtual to do. I do note that these repeatedly vaunted other credentials of being a past wunderkind in the biz world that he and a certain other blogger icon always haul out every few months are somehow to be taken as an incontestible criterion for producing content of value? Oh wait, it’s only other people’s training and credentials that are always questionable. IOW, what you’re asserting here will go flying right by Them as usual, since quality has nothing to do with their type of zero sum mentality that sees only value in those who as Whitley points out “belong to their clique”.

1) “Pay to play,” a.k.a. paying a stipend or free to a travel blogger in return for coverage:

This raises questions about objectivity in the coverage, but then again, so does accepting a press trip or working for a publication that runs advertising. At one end of the editorial spectrum, there are publications like CONSUMER REPORTS that are funded solely by readers, and at the other end of the spectrum, there are publications and Web sites (such as free tourist magazines) that use content supplied by advertisers. There’s no universally-accepted dividing line along that spectrum between “ethical” and “unethical” or “objective” and “under the influence.” Traditional editors and writers (and I’m one of them) might lift an eyebrow at the notion of stipends in return for coverage, but from a reader’s point of view, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

2) “Marketing partnerships” such as the iambassador scheme that Jordan’s tourist office is using:

The participating bloggers are putting their personal brands or reputations to work for Jordan’s tourist board, acting as freelance publicists on social networks like Twitter and Facebook. Is this unethical? The answer to that depends on what kind of disclosure accompanies the promotional tweets and posts. But I think a more important issue is whether the bloggers are risking a loss of credibility with their readers, with PR people who are leery of such “marketing partnerships,” and with editors of mainstream media (and no, “mainstream media” isn’t just a synonym for “print”) who could be useful sources of publicity, links, and freelance opportunities down the line.

One thing we should keep in mind is the fact that most bloggers don’t consider themselves “journalists” and shouldn’t be expected to obsess about appearances. At the SATW Editors Council meeting last May, the travel editor of a major newspaper explained that the paper’s rules on press trips, comps, etc. existed because newspapers live in a “glass house.” If investigative reporters for a paper’s news section take the mayor to task for accepting a junket to Elbonia, the paper doesn’t want the mayor to be able to turn around and say “But your newspaper’s travel writers accept junkets, so how dare you question my ethics?” Self-published travel bloggers and other independent Web publishers don’t have to worry about the “glass house” issue, so it’s both naive and unreasonable for J-school professors or newspaper editors to dictate what such independent bloggers and publishers should or shouldn’t do.

I really don’t want to get into a journalist – blogger blah blah blah, as this was discussed so many times already. But it seems that some journalists / travel writers likes that topic and start all over again & again. If I’m wrong, please let me know and show me a post where a blogger started a discussion like that in a post. I personally would prefer to work together and see no problem to do so.

The travel bloggers who were invited by the Jordan tourism board in the last year and also the iAmbassador group never got paid to write an article. I was actually never asked to write something by any tourism board and I’m sure I can speak for all travel bloggers here. The editorial control of each post is very important and it’s very important that it stays like that, as that’s what the readers expect of a blogger.

Up till now I see advertorials (complete articles for advertisung purposes) and PR texts only in newspapers and magazines.

Well, actually, my irritation is, kinda… at least, as far as I know anything about it. (Which is only by reading the online pitch for it, though these comments stand as a general point anyway.) But it’s not because I “hate” bloggers. I was a “blogger” (though not in travel) before any of these travel blogs existed, AFAIK. I don’t say that to claim some idiotic precedence, but to emphasize that (as you say, David) we’re all pretty much part of the same industry. I write online journalism, I write print journalism, I write commissioned books and ebooks, I write apps “entrepreneurially”, I even write the odd opinion piece on my own site for free (I’m a blogger!). The medium is irrelevant. That’s not lots of industries. It’s one.

And it’s precisely *because* I consider many of these “travel bloggers” my peers that I give a shit when they cross what, for me, is an ethical red line.You can write editorial. You can write marketing. When the destination is the client, you’re writing the latter. You can’t claim one is the other, or you’re cheating your readers, and (in the long run) screwing us all.

@Zora – you haven’t been? Shame on you! And yes, you’re absolutely right: the JTB deserve plaudits and admiration for devising the strategy – JTB is not just a regional leader in the M.East, but (as shown by their online influence, invariably listed in the top 5 or 10 tourist boards) a world leader too.

It’s just like @Stuart says – a few elements need refinement. And, as @Shaney noted earlier on, constructive engagement of the kind that’s (mostly) been shown on this page, supportive but critical, should I hope be welcomed by both parties.

@Zoë – kind words much appreciated, thank you.

This debate is inspirational in many ways – Im one who tries to see the best in things as there’s enough crap in the world anyway, and it’s focused me on developing my craft – writing – whilst observing & learning from others who do it better. Being able to recognise the merits and downsides of the experiences that blogging brings is a valuable insight … thanks to all for reminding me.

It’s called criticism. You learn from it.

We’re part of your industry, Oliver. We might not be in your clique, your self-defined community, but we’re all part of the same thing. We probably agree on more things than we don’t agree on; but we do disagree on some things. That should be something to be embraced; no industry can survive without differing approaches and opinions. Perhaps you should try embracing them rather than dismissing them as the hate-filled rants of dinosaurs. The “blogger (as long as it fits my definition of blogger) = good” is far too simplistic, and will be massively damaging to our (yes, not your) industry in the long run.

And I don’t think any of the comments above are really to do with the iAmbassador project. They’re about noise and sound quality. No-one really cares about the iAmbassador project. Sorry to break it to you.

PS. “After all, they are busy trying to make money. . . are you?” Take out the ‘trying’ part, and, yep, spot on.